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Electronic Body Protector

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4:42 am
January 1, 2009


Roy Khoh

Canning Vale, Western Australia

Admin

posts 152

Electronic scoring methods for taekwondo tournament sparring – by which computer technology will award the points.

Just a follow on from the article written here about the Commonwealth Championships and the fact that they were using the LaJust EBP for the entire tournament. There are a couple of comments below the article regarding the EBPs that were used there also. With links to videos and photos of what they look like and how they operate.

I welcome all comments about Electronic Body Protectors here – both the Adidas and the LaJust system. If there are more, then they're welcome also.

10:52 am
January 2, 2009


Kim Seng

Moderator

posts 50

There is another EBP on the market.  It is the Daedo TrueScore electronic scoring system which was developed in USA by an ex US National team member and an ex CIA defense contractor.  This system has been in use in a number of tournaments in the US and the European opens.  Here is their website:

http://www.truescoretkd.com  and some vidoes:

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=AjHdEKtWAUs

The LaJust system were used successfully in a number of the continental regions such as the Pan Am championships, the Asian Championships and recently the Commonwealth Championships.  It has been used in Korean tournaments as well.  Here is the LaJust website  http://www.lajust.com/   and a video of its use in Korea:

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=NJlXgbw4BIQ&feature=related

Here is the Adidas system.  It has been used in some tournaments in Europe and the recent Oceania championships.  Here is the website and video presentation of its product and use: 

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=uucN5t5ktts

9:57 am
January 9, 2009


Kim Seng

Moderator

posts 50

The Korea Taekwondo Association (KTA) recently announced after a meeting on 5th Janaury 2009 that they have set minimum standards for the specifications of the electronic body protectors.  This followed extensive experimentation with current market ebps's and testing at tournaments over numerous matches.  They have also collated views from referees, coaches and players.

The strategy is to encourage development and competition amongst manufacturers that should drive imrpovements towards a much better system.  It is common knowledge that there is still some way to go before a truly acceptable electronic ebp would be finalized, even though there is only one ebp system (LaJust) that is currently approved by the WTF. 

The major manufacturers are LaJust, Adidas and TrueScore Daedo.  But the KTA move opens the door for the possibility of large electronic firms such as Samsung, LG and other top technogically advanced companies and universities to enter the market in research and design or to manufacture these ebp's.  This is not altoegther a bad thing as competition and market share will certainly drive further improvements and fine tune impact accuracy, acceptability and consistency in scoring.  And of course it would help drive the cost down.  The ebp's is not cheap to buy.

The WTF wants to use the ebps at the the next world championships in Copenhagen, Denmark (October 2009) to use the ebps.

It is not too long ago, some 20 years ago that taekwondo moved from the manual paper judging system to electornic instrument scoring system.  This is just another evolving phase for the sport.

12:02 am
January 10, 2009


Kim Seng

Moderator

posts 50

The focus areas being sought by KTA for their standards include the following:

1.  Impact, accuracy and consistency:  eg variations should be minimal and there should be a high level of accuracy and consistency of scoring results.

2.  Differentiation of valid and invalid kicks:  eg acceptance only of the kicks allowed as opposed to those kicks that are not permitted.

3.  System operation and efficiency. eg detection of malfunctions or system crashes.

The ebp's has been researched and undergone phases of development over many years, eg all 3 major manufacturers have been doing their research and developments for over 20 years.  It is becoming more and more publicised now as the move towards electronic (non human) scoring gathers momentum.

In time, as in all technological advances, that the ebp's will be a very viable way for scoring taekwondo matches.  There are also many areas to consider to make this a reality for all levels of competitions and not just the top level competitions.  The cost to own one set of ebp is high for a start, and the minimal requirement to operate on one court is at least one set for each size of the electronic hogu plus the peripheral attachments (eg the foot sensors as for the LaJust system), the operating system and display units.

10:07 am
January 12, 2009


koryo 1

Member

posts 5

Has anybody used the major electronic systems and can give a comparison which one is better than the other?  or alternatively what are the advantages and dis-advantages of each of them?  Would they produce the same results?

9:25 am
January 22, 2009


Kim Seng

Moderator

posts 50

These point form summary comments were passed onto me from a referee who had used both the LaJust ebp and the Adidas ebp late last year in 2 separate competitions within 3 weeks of each other:

  • The LaJust ebp produced more points in matches compared to Adidas ebp, and quite a number of matches ended up with zero points scored with the Adidas ebp, whereas more points were scored with the LaJust ebp.
  • "ghost points" were more prevalent with the Adidas ebp, eg body to body contact, knee hits, players falling heavily onto the floor.
  • Adidas protectors were bulky and heavier to wear according to the players compared to LaJust which were thinner and lighter as almost like the non electronic ones.
  • Back kick points were better to score with Adidas compared to LaJust.
  • There were views that there should be more sensors on the LaJust foot protectors, eg there were none on the back heel and only a few on the bottom heel and sole of the foot.
  • The LaJust system would give off a warning signal on the screens when there is a malfunction of the sensor system, and the ebp's had to be re-registered.  It is not known if the Adidas has a malfunction built in test that warns in the event of a malfunction.
  • The Adidas system used was equipped with wireless scoring instruments for the referee (head kick points), whereas the LaJust sysem used had the normal wire cabling attached to the referee's scoring units (head kick points).
  • The LaJust system used electronic sensors to register and confirm points whereas the Adidas used air pressure levels to register the points.  Both systems used transmitters to send the points to the main scoring system and to be displayed on the monitor screens.
  • Both systems had the capability for the technicians to adjust the point score minimum levels for each weight division for male or female players.

This forum welcomes further comments and discussions from referees or coaches or players who have used them or any other electronic body protectors.  It is considered that the ebp's are still in the development stages (advanced stages) and are getting to the stage where the taekwondo community are now starting to accept them.  No doubt techniques and executions of techniques and skill levels will change as witnessed in these competitions that used the ebp's.

9:00 am
January 26, 2009


Simon T

New Member

posts 2

Normally, it is quite hard to register points with a punch, but on the
Adidas system, I have seen one competitor score at least two, maybe three
points with the Adidas system. He did it with a hook punch to the side of
the lower body right over the hip bone. Apparently, the hip bone served as
a solid background and the system registered right away because there was no
give when pressure was applied on the air-pressured tubing running over the
hip area.
 
On pressure applied elsewhere on the ebp, the body gives a little bit and
more pressure is required to register. I was standing right next to the
technician handling the computer system and both he and I expressed
amazement that the punches were not that strong, yet it registered quite
high over the required pressure threshold to score a point.
 
Also, a back kick would register more often than a regular round house kick,
because the area of the heel of the foot when used for a back kick is
smaller than the flat instep of the foot on the round-house kick. If one
uses the tip of the fingers or the first knuckles of the fingers he could
score quite a bit (smaller area).

8:49 am
February 9, 2009


koryo 1

Member

posts 5

The 2009 US Open (12-15 February in Las Vegas) is using the La Just electronic protector system for the junior 14-17 years and the open divisions.  It would appear that the La Just system is being used more and more compared to the above 3 systems mentioned in this forum such as the Adidas and the TrueScore Daedo system. 

Remember when taekwondo implemented the hand held electronic scoring system in the early 1990's when the ASL system (from Austria), was just about the only system approved by the WTF at the time.  Then more suppliers and more manufacturers joined in, and there were numerous systems being used in the last 20 years.  It would appear that the electronic body protectors will evolve similarly, but that La Just is gaining to be the more acceptable one for now.

Does this mean that the La Just electronic protector scoring system is gaining more acceptance compared to the other systems?  Or is it because it has the WTF approval or is it because the system is better and is more advanced?  Will the KTA initiative to open up the market too late? or will it open up more competition among the suppliers and the manufacturers?

10:30 am
March 17, 2009


Kim Seng

Moderator

posts 50

Following a series of meetings and studies the ad-hoc committee tasked by the WTF to analyze the status of electronic body protectors and to recommend future policy, has recommended that the WTF take initiative to use the electronic body protectors at the 2009 World Cup Taekwondo Team Championships being held in Baku, Azerbaijan during June 2009.

Companies producing electronic protectors will be invited to demonstrate their systems to the members of the ad-hoc committee and its working group in Lausanne, Switzerland on May 6, 2009.

It would appear that the brand and make of the ebp's to be used has not been finally signed-off as yet.  There is still opportunity for the best and the most suitable to be selected.

12:38 pm
May 19, 2009


Kim Seng

Moderator

posts 50

On May 6th in Lausanne, during WTF's electronic hogu performance testing, KP&P received good results on its performance.

WTF said "KP&P which is recommended by Korea Taekwondo Association (KTA) performed exceeded all our expectations. There is room for improvement but looking at overall performance and its system, they can easily compete with other companies."

DaeDo also was present at Lausanne for the test. WTF official said "their system showed much improvement compared to previous testing. DaeDo's electronic hogu is already being used at many parts of Europe. But compared to other hogus, they need to work on details of their hogu."

Adidas, who was supposed to be present, was a no show. WTF sent a letter of evaluation provision to all relative companies. Shortly after Adidas sent a notification to WTF that they will not be participating at this year's testing. WTF said "it seems they were overwhelmed by our letter of evaluation provision. However, we wanted to invite all the companies for this year's testing not to judge them, but to point of the flaws of their system so that they can work towards improving their system. I believe Adidas took this testing too seriously."

10:40 am
May 21, 2009


Kim Seng

Moderator

posts 50

The WTF ad-hoc committee for Electronic Protectors reported pleasing results from 2 companies that offered their electronic body protectors for field testing in Lausanne Switzerland on 6th May 2009.  The 2 companies were KP & P from Korea and Daedo from Spain (note an earlier forum post that reported that the TrueScore  product merged with Daedo).  The test simulations were conducted by the Swiss Taekwondo Federation who provided the players and referees while France also sent some players.

The ad-hoc committee reported its positive impressions on both products especially in the areas of total flexibility, classical design, water-proof sensors, verification of valid attacks, and reversibility.  The ad-hoc committee also recommended that these two companies submit their products to KISS Institute for laboratory testing and another field testing in actual competition situation before final approval to be used at WTF recognized tournaments.

The WTF will decide during the World Cup Taekwondo Team Championships being held in Baku, Azerbaijan, if they will use the electronic body protectors at the 2009 World Taekwondo Championships being held in Copenhagen, Denmark during October 2009.

11:39 am
June 4, 2009


Kim Seng

Moderator

posts 50

Many companies are starting to challenge LaJust and its electronic hogu. There are rumors that companies who have recently jumped into the electronic hogu market are backed by powerful and influential Taekwondo figures.

One source said "during KTA electronic hogu testing back in April, KP&P, who participated in the testing, was well received by KTA officials and seems to be getting their support. Also, High Tech Engineering met with Kukkiwon officials with their system."

KP&P has made a fast progress within 3 months. KP&P held a demonstration on April 29th, participated in WTF electronic hogu testing in Lausanne in May 6th, and another demonstration on May 14th at the 5.18 championships in Kwanju, Korea. KTA has also said they will use KP&P's electronic hogu at their tournament soon.

While KP&P is getting a lot of attention and making moves in the Taekwondo community, LaJust has not been featured at any events since November of 2008. One KTA official said "LaJust, after reviewing this year's system criteria sent out by KTA, is not confident enough to put their system on the table."

LaJust is critical of current situation regarding electronic hogu. LaJust has invested millions of dollars in their system research past ten years. If LaJust accommodates to KTA's demand, it's a high possibility that other organizations will also demand a retest of their system.

With WTF World Taekwondo Championship coming on in October of 2009, KP&P and High Tech Engineering will no doubt make more moves in attempt to get their system to be used at the championships.

4:02 am
June 6, 2009


hvtkd

New Member

posts 2

hi all . having used lajust and addidas. the only thing i have against lajust at present with trials is watching competitors putting on dirty, wet foot protectors. it is becoming very expensive with all this technology, so hopefully with new rules and hopefully higher profile, funding will be easier.

11:37 pm
June 27, 2009


Kim Seng

Moderator

posts 50

The La Just ebp system was used at the recent World Cup team event in Baku.  The WTF reported that it was successfully implemented.  However, it has been reported that there are still issues as the system is not quite perfected yet.  Some of the issues include, as hvtkd posted in his comments, the wet foot booties (with embedded scoring sensors); some concerns on wet moisture affecting the scoring; some clear kicks that would have scored in "human scoring format" compared to the LaJust ebp not scoring and vice versa; back kicks are not scoring as frequently (because there are less embedded sensors on the back heal or back bottom sole of the foot); referees cannot overrule the ebp scores unless they were scored outside of the designated scoring criterion, eg outside of boundary line, after falling down etc;

11:54 pm
June 27, 2009


Kim Seng

Moderator

posts 50

The WTF had delayed its decision on the use of the electronic body protectors for the next WTF promoted event which is the World Championships being held in Denmark.  This was to be a decision to be made on the 12th June during the World Cup event in Azerbaijan.  However there has been a delay and some of the concerns or reports facing President Choue of the WTF include:

  • a positive report made by the Special Electronic Hogu Committee on the 12th June.
  • the number of ebp's required for an event, such as the World Championships would be high and if the manufacturer (La Just) would sponsor them.
  • the La Just ebp and system is not yet perfected, and there are still issues
  • contractual issues with La Just who had been given the sole contract to supply ebp's for all WTF promoted events for 5 years from 2007 through to 2012 and including the Olympic Games (London Olympics fall into this contract period).  This means it will be difficult for any other manufacturer to supply their ebp's even if they were proven to be better and more reliable.  note: earlier reports that the Daedo Truescore system and also the KP & P ebp system proved successful at a testing session held in Lausanne , Switzerland during early May.

12:07 am
June 28, 2009


Kim Seng

Moderator

posts 50

The WTF announced on 26th June that the World Championships being held in Copenhagen, Denmark during 14-18 October will be using the La Just electronic body protectors.  The WTF also acknowledged that there are rooms for improvement for the ebp's, it was considered to make competition decision fairer, in particular with the instant video replay format being introduced.

The La Just ebps' have now been used in many WTF recognised events held throughout the world since 2008, inlcuding:  Asian Championships, Pan American (PATU) Championships, Commonwealth Championships, US Open, Mediterranean Cup, World Cup and others.

12:21 pm
July 30, 2009


Kim Seng

Moderator

posts 50

KP&P successfully showcased its electronic hogu during the “32nd Yeon Se University Games” held in Seoul, Korea recently on 29th July. The system consistently showed accurate point registration throughout the day, and was widely accpeted by the athletes and the coaches.

With KP&P's recent success, the discussion will be to which electronic hogu will be used at the 2012 London Olympic Games. LaJust has an inside running as it is the only electronic hogu currently approved by the WTF.  Waiting on its wings for WTF approval are the KP&P system and the Daedo Truescore system which both received positive feedback last May during the IOC Committee meeting in Lausanne, Switzerland.

KP&P began their research and development of the electronic hogu development only about 4 years ago against the claim of more than 20 years research and development done by LaJust.  Adidas also claim to have a long history of research and development.

Perhaps the Singapore Youth Olympic Games being held in August 2010 could be an excellent fore runner for its use ahead of the 2012 London Olympics in the Olympics arena.  It is a year to go, but would the WTF be ready for it?.

8:34 am
September 2, 2009


Kim Seng

Moderator

posts 50

The US Taekwondo national federation and LaJust have agreed on a 4 year contract on August 22nd. With this contract, LaJust will be used in all USAT sanctioned tournaments from August 22, 2009 through year 2013.  The tournaments included their nationals, national selections, US junior Olympics and the US Open.

11:02 am
October 25, 2009


Kim Seng

Moderator

posts 50

The La Just electronic body protectors (ebp) were used at the 2009 World Taekwondo Championships held in Copenhagen, Denmark during 14-18 October 2009.  I was there and officiated as International Referee.  The La Just ebp's have improved since I last used them at the Commonwealth Championships (Canada in November 2008).

Some of the main improvements included:

  1. more points being scored on the ebp's for round-house kicks;  this is largely due to more sensors being introduced to the foot socks around the instep.  There is full coverage of the instep from toe to the base where the ankle and instep meet.
  2. better scoring from back kicks; the foot sock sensors are now placed on the base of the sole of the heel and also the base of the middle arch of the bottom sole.  previously there were only a small strip across the base of the sole of the heel.  However there is no sensors on the back of the heel or the ball of the foot or the bottom of the toes.
  3. the ebp's can now be “registered” at the marshalling area instead of at the front table before each match started, this is a plus and reduced waiting time at the competition court area.
  4. the foot sock sensors appear to be more robust.

The hand protector gloves with sensors were on display but not used as yet.  So the referee judges still have to manually score the punch points using the electronic scoring scoring unit.  The gloves were on display on each table and they appear to be ready for use.  The front area on the gloves where the knuckles are have a velcroed area where the sensors will be inserted to provide the electronics to score the points on the ebp's.  It is not too far away for these gloves to become avauilable and match ready.

The hand held electronic unit has also improved and now has 6 scoring “buttons”, ie 3 for blue player and 3 for red player.  3-points are scored for the legitimate head shots, 1-point for the body punch (this button is coloured white to distinguish it from the kick point button), and the additional 1-point button for a technical point (ie the turning kick eg a back kick or a 360 degree continuous kick).

In the case of the the back kick or the 360 degree continuous kick, the referee judge can press the technical point button, but the additional 1-point will only add to the score if the ebp registered that kick as a legitimate point.  So even if the referee judges “pressed the button” for the technical point, it will not add the additional point if the ebp did not register the kick point (eg did not meet the minimum force level for the weight category) in the same instant.

The use of the ebp's have made competition scoring much fairer in that the kicks that land on the arms or the hands and wrapped onto body protectors or the kicking foot partially hitting the arm and the body protectors will not score as the force levels will not register sufficient power to activate the point scores. 

Some kick techniques appear to result in powerful hits and these did not score, probably due to insufficient surface area impacting on the ebp from the in-step of the kicking foot.   In some instances a point would register from a not so powerful kick but the impacting surface area was large enough to register higher than the force level required to score the point.  I think the time duration of the impact on the ebp with the senors are part criteria to registering a high enough force level to score.

There were concerns that moisture was an enabler / catalyst to register easy point scores.  During the 5 day competition, I observe that moisture in small quantities is not a concern but rather large quantities of water or very wet foot socks may be of concern.  In this, all referees checked each player's foot socks before the start of each round to ensure the foot socks are dry – ie on the instep and the sole of the foot where the sensors are located.  The referees also checked to ensure that each foot sock is the standard La Just  foot sock and that there are no additional sensors embedded in the foot socks. 

The hand protector gloves and the ebp's themselves were also checked that they were dry and not wet before each round commenced.  Refereeing officials also kept an eye at the players and coaches during their breaks to ensure that there are no attempts to wet the foot socks or gloves.

During inspection, each player was also checked for any metallic objects that could potentially trigger off electronic oddities.

The new world of ebp's will now introduce a new era of techniques or more like delivery and execution of techniques will change.  Some examples will be more round-house kicks with a more square-on delivery angle will have a better chance of registering a score, ball of the foot kicks will phase out (unless on the face), back kicks will be delivered with the bottom of the heel rather than just the sole of the foot, back of the heel kicks will phase out (unless on the face), rapid kicks that just snaps and touch the ebp's may be modified to ensure there is some acceptable time duration on the impact time on the ebp. 

Above are some views on how techniques may change in its delivery, there may be more as players try on these La Just ebp's and work out ways and techniques that are most suitable to score the required points.

And when the next phase of introduction comes in for the hand glove sensors and potentially the head guards with sensors, the sport will undergo further development and scoring points will become fully electronic.

While the ebp's were used, there were instances when the referee or the judges had to step in and invalidate any points scored outside of the competition rules guidelines, eg scoring the point after kalyeo (break), points scored on a fallen player, outside the boundary line, or even when the ebp's clashed which in some instances posted a “ghost point”.  All these “illegitimate” points scored had to be annulled, and of course the offending player, if using any prohibited acts would have to be penalised – as per competition rule or technical guidelines.

I have discussed some of the above points and provided my experiences of its use plus some views and suggestions to the La Just designer and his staff.  note: the La Just electronic body protector commeneced in 1982 in Connecticut, USA and has quite a histroy on its development.  You can visit http://www.lajust.com to view further.

I will post some comments on the use of the amended rules and the video replay system in the competition rules forum of this website.

7:40 pm
October 28, 2009


Roy Khoh

Canning Vale, Western Australia

Admin

posts 152

It sounds very different to the Adidas system. Simon T mentions back on January 26 that the smaller surface area is more likely to score. Whereas this LaJust appears to be the opposite? At least this would make it easier to choose betwen the two since they are so distinct in their way of registering points.

From the coaching / players side of things … I am interested to know; What is the scoring like for players attacking with doubles/triples and multiples?

I can imagine these maneouvres being phased out also because it is quite difficult to consistently register significant impact with those kicks.

I like the exclusive "additional (turning kick) point" button on the hand-controller. Although having 3 buttons for each colour/player may be a bit of a learning curve. Maybe the younger video-game-console generation will be better suited to this. Are there still 4 corner judges with these controllers? 'cos it wouldn't be good to have only the one person in charge of these "extra" points.

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