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Electronic Body Protector

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5:41 am
October 31, 2009


Kim Seng

Moderator

posts 51

Yes, the 2 brands scoring formats are quite different.  The Adidas ebp uses pressure levels to register points via a electronic transmitter while the La Just ebp uses electronic sensors to register the force levels. 

In a pressure level format, the force delivered over a smaller area would give a higher pressure level, as the Adidas system.  In the La Just format, where sensors are used, the view is that if more sensors make contact with the ebp there will be more probability to register a higher force level to register the point.

Having used both formats, my view is that the techniques required to score points are quite different on the 2 systems (Adidas vs La Just).  The end result of the kick delivery varies by the technical delivery of the kicking technique.  

In my experience, where Adidas was used, the point scores were lower, whereas in the La  Just system, the point scores were higher.  The standards of both formats are quite different, and players will experience different scoring results from either system.  Some would prefer one system over the other, as their techniques will dictate which system will result in registering the point from their kicks.

Just like any system or format used, whether it be Adidas or La Just, the players will adjust and amend their techniques and deliver their kicks accordingly to gain the points.

The La Just use of the sensors mean that any kicks delivered with any part of the foot that did not have sensors will not register any force level reading (no point), hence my view that the ball of the foot or the back of the heel kicks will phase out unless delivered to the head.

The La Just format is more friendly to those quick continuous double, triple or multiple kicks and these kicks can score in succession as they are delivered as long as they can register above the minimum force levels of the weight category.  My view is that these kicks had to be delivered with sufficient coverage of the sensors from the in-step. 

My observation is the impact time duration may be a factor in registering a higher force level to register the point, and my view that the “snappy” type kick that just touches the ebp would not score (short impact time duration).  There were, however, some kicks that appear not too strong but they score, hence my view that impact area and impact time duration may be a factor.

note 1:  There are other manufacturers of the ebp's, and I am sure their design and methodology used for scoring would be different.  So scoring would be different on different competitions that use a different ebp system.  It will be a challenge to standardise the ebp formats and scoring designs to be used.

With regards the 3 button system; they were not too difficult to use.  Just have to differentiate between the kick technical point (coloured button) or the punch point (white and smaller button).  There were instances where the referee judge could have pressed the wrong button, but these can be corrected instantly or the referee judge puts his-her hand up and advice the error to the referee and it gets corrected.

In the 2009 World Championships, we used the 3 corner judge format and 2 judges need to press the buttons to confirm any point scores.  In accordance with the competition rules, only the judges can score the points and nobody else, and any competition that operate otherwise is in breach of the competition rules.

note 2: I have posted comments to the use of the 2 button format in a non ebp system; there is no need for the 3-button format in a non ebp system if the software design for scoring sequences and time windows are configured correctly.  Click here to view the post.

11:09 pm
December 4, 2009


Kim Seng

Moderator

posts 51

There are some comments posted to another topic on this forum click here to view:

points for multiple kicks:

http://www.ata-wa.org.au/forum/referee/amended-wtf-competition-rules-from-2009/page-1/

yes the corner judges control the scoring for the additional turning kick point:

1:47 am
December 8, 2009


Roy Khoh

Canning Vale, Western Australia

Admin

posts 163

Recently watched LaJust EBPs in action.

Looks like scoring to the back is out again. Although kicking to the back-side (not including spine) is permitted, the LaJust system makes it VERY difficult to score on the back – since there are no sensors there.

Not only is the competition area reduced to what it was years/decades ago, so is the scoring (or lack of it) to the back :)

9:44 am
January 5, 2010


Kim Seng

Moderator

posts 51

The scoring areas on the body protectors vary between electronic body protectors (ebp's) and non ebp's.  Much of the variation is the area of coverage that is coloured.  According to the WTF competition rules, as per article 11.2.1 for permitted area is any part of the body covered by the body protector and article 12.1 the legal scoring areas being any part of the body protector which is coloured red or blue.

The specifics of the legal scoring area is the red or blue coloured areas and this does not specify how large or how much of the body protector should be coloured.  So a manufacturer could in fact make those coloured areas smaller or larger and according to the rules those would be the legal scoring areas.  And this raises issues as different manufacturers have differing specs for the size of the coloured areas and even the size of the body protectors.  Example some manufacturer may have a size 3 body protector which is the same size as a size 4 body protector of another brand name from a different manufacturer.  Therefore it is important that during inspection each player's body protector is checked for equal or close to same physical sizing rather than the same marked number size and also the area coverage of the coloured blue or red areas are of the same size or close to same area sizing.

Example, the LaJust ebp's coloured areas are quite large, however they do not extend very far around the back and stops just past the centre vertical line of the side of the body, it does not extend past the back of the flank far enough as compared to the standard Daedo or Kwon or Adidas or SMAI WTF approved non ebp's.  This would be a dis-advantage to a player who is so used to either wearing such a body protector that covers more of the back ( eg comfort and safety protection) or the player who is so used to scoring towards the back of the flank coloured areas, that if he used the same scoring shot on the same spot towards the back part of the flank, he would score on the non ebp's whereas he would not score on the La Just ebp.

The Adidas ebp has a smaller coverage of the red or blue coloured scoring areas, as it stops just above the nipple line on the front of the chest whereas the LaJust ebp and other non ebp's have a full length coloured area coverage that stretches up to the base of the collar bone line.  So it would seem the Adidas ebp has less scoring opportunities in this top of the chest area compared to other brand names.

While it would be sensible to use the same brand names at a competition, it is difficult to enforce this as players are usually more likely to use their own personal body protector or that the tournament organisers would have to supply and provide the same brand name body protectors so there is equality of sizing and coloured scoring area coverage, and of course more costs or otherwise a manufacturer would sponsor the event by providing their body protector products.

Considering there are differences in electronic scoring technology used, eg with the major brands of LaJust or Adidas or Daedo or KP&P; players also need to understand the differences in scoring areas and size of each body protector brand, and the differences in which kicks suit which brand name better.  Best would be for the coach / club / country / or player to have in their possession each major brand named body protector for the players to practice on and to develop that variety and variation of strategic kicks needed or the types of kicks most likely to score the points.

10:50 am
January 26, 2010


Kim Seng

Moderator

posts 51

The Daedo electronic body protector was field tested on the 16th at the Netherland Games. If Daedo passes this field test, there is probability that it could get WTF approval.

"Daedo's electronic hogu received high marks at many competitions in Europe and South America. We have passed the KISS test as well. We are now at the final stage before getting the WTF approval which is the field test" Daedo's representative, Chun Ook Park said.

At their first test back in 2008, Daedo electronic hogu did not receive positive remarks. Among those ebp's tested included LaJust, Daedo, and Adidas.  There is now another new ebp from KP&P.

footnote:  The Daedo ebp is a merger of the old Daedo ebp plus the former Truescore ebp.

11:52 am
February 5, 2010


Kim Seng

Moderator

posts 51

The WTF has officially approved the Daedo electronic body protectors on 2 Feb 2010.  Daedo has been researching and developing its system for several years. With its new system manufactured by Truescore, Daedo is now only the second electronic body protector system along with LaJust (2006) that are approved by WTF.

Daedo first developed an electronic system in 2005. Since then, Daedo has undergone several tests and demonstrations organized by WTF.  note, Truescore had developed its system in the 1990's and merged with Daedo recently.   In May of 2009, Daedo presented its electronic system in Lausanne (Switzerland) and received positive remarks from the WTF ad-hoc committee on ebp's which was crucial in obtaining WTF approval for its system.

Now that the Daedo electronic system is recognized and approved by WTF, its system will now be eligible for use at international competitions promoted and-or sanctioned by the WTF.

12:59 am
April 22, 2010


Kim Seng

Moderator

posts 51

There are 2 brand name electronic body protectors (ebp's) approved by WTF.  It is reported that the Daedo contract returns more financial dollars to WTF, while La Just had exclusive use at WTF hosted events up to the 2012 London Olympics.

There is now a potential dilemma facing athletes and coaches as both ebp's are different in their design and configuration for registering point scores, and of course electronic sensors and sensor equipment.  The dilemma is which brand of ebp should the player buy and train with?  And the cost is quite high to purchase singularly (each) or for a full set for all sizes and the computer scoring system (and software) that comes with it.

It is thought that a player who is more familiar and has been training with a particular brand of ebp will have an advantage over another player who had not trained with or owned that brand of ebp.  Strategies for techniques use and competition match play would be different and game plans would be different for competitions that use different brands.

The Daedo and LaJust ebp's cannot be used at the same time.  Now that
there are 2 WTF approved electronic body protectors, it will take time
to unite both systems (standardisation) to make things work either when used together in
tournaments or even if used separately, and of course players will have to compete
with different strategies each time depending on which ebp is being
used.

What would have been best was to have a set of specifications and design standards instituted and all manufacturers had to follow that same standard design and specs.  It would have eliminated at least the big variabilities of scoring outcomes.

Hosting organisations, if they want to host competitions with ebp's will find costs prohibitive, in particular the smaller clubs, and smaller nations in trying to cater for all age groups and all sizes of ebp hogu's.  Otherwise all costs will befall the players themselves as they will have to purchase their own ebp and maintain their own ebp equipment, such as ensuring that their ebp's are checked and are calibrated before each competition.  There may have to undergo compulsory calibration and verification checks at each competition before these ebp's are certified acceptable for use.

Interesting times ahead.

12:25 am
June 10, 2010


Kim Seng

Moderator

posts 51

The WTF recently announced that electronic body protectors will be used at the 2012 London Olympics for taekwondo sport.  The new term is now called PSS, Protector & Scoring System.  The Instant Video Replay system (IVR) will also be used.

There are now currently two PSS manufacturers that are approved by the WTF, ie LA Just and Daedo.  There is however 2 other major manufacturers that are knocking on the doors for WTF approval and these include the Korean KP&P ebp system and the German Adidas ebp system.  Both these systems have been assessed by the WTF at some stages previously with the most recent in May 2009 in Switzerland where KP&P and Daedo made their successful demonstration and tests.  Daedo went on to be field tested in January 2010 and got its WTF approval in February 2010.  KP&P is the only ebp system approved by the KTA (Korean Taekwondo Association) and observers believe they will be pressing hard for WTF approval this year so they could be included as part of the search for the most effective PSS system to be used in the 2012 London Olympics.

The London Organising Committee of the Olympic Games (LOCOG) will contract one of the companies of the PSS and the IVR to be used for the London Olympics by November 2010 in consultation with various stakeholder groups, including the WTF ad-hoc committee for PSS and one would think the people using or being affected by the PSS such as referees, judges, players and coaches.  It would be logical that the TV media will be consulted as well, as the PSS and the IVR will have to be media friendly and which would allow for instant replays with slow motion playbacks and interactive or analytical assessments and simulations to be telivised via the media.  This would make the arm chair spectator's view really interesting and exciting.

Equipment reliability will be paramount for both the PSS and the IVR.  Manufacturers for both systems will have to increase their engineering design and iron out any reliability issues.

This is a bold move by the WTF having only implemented the PSS and the IVR systems officially from the 2009 World Cup.  Since then, the WTF have used the LaJust PSS and the Dartfish IVR in WTF hosted events, including the 2009 World Championships, 2010 World Junior championships, the Youth Olympics qualifications and next will be the 2010 World Cup.  The Daedo ebp system had been used in the European events since its approval from WTF.

So which manuafacturer will get picked?  Take a vote, and then compare with the final choice.


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